Session 06: Transcript

SESSION 06 TRANSCRIPT

Session Topic: How can I get my organization to speak out about Black Lives Matter?

Kyle: The next question I cannot wait to hear your response, I'm curious because I know this is your area of expertise. What can organizations say or what can our response be to the current environment when it comes to racism, especially when we think we have support with racist viewpoint. So you are like the queen of diversity and inclusion in all of these efforts. I know you've been living in this space for a long time, so I can't wait to hear. What do you think about all of that? 

Carrie: And so thank you, Kyle, and thank you for those compliments to them. So I'm going to take the first part of the question first. So what can my work say, especially when we think we have conservative supporters or supporters who may not support the Black Lives Matter movement at all? Right. And so, honestly, I think that this goes back to your company values and being able to tie any message to whatever it is to the values that your company already stands for because that's like your shared equipment with both your internal contingent as well as your external community and supporters. And in a case like this, no matter what is happening around it, whether you agree with protest or not or the Black Lives Matter organization or not, like we literally watched a man be killed in the most despicable and nonchalant way possible. That's what this is about. That's really what you're responding to. And if that is OK with you like that doesn't bother you, then don't say anything. And don't worry about what people think about what you might say. But if you're fundamentally against murder on camera by the police and I know that I'm obviously taking a strong stance inside here, but that's what we saw. That's the fact of what we saw. Then you should be OK with, like, just standing up and saying, hey, what we saw was wrong and we want to let our company, both internally and externally, that we don't stand behind anything like that. And what we do stand behind are X, Y, Z values. Right. So you're just restating your values. You can even leave out the first one to say, hey, as a company, we don't stand for any injustice. What we do stand for, however, is X, Y and Z. It makes it really simple. That's why you spend the time on the values. And now you both supported the world in the sense of supporting humanity. But then also let your employees know that you support them, because when you don't say something and you have people who believe or are part of the group or believe in a cause, regardless of what it is, then what that shows is that you don't really support them. If you have any people of color at your organization and you have not said anything, you to say something right away because the people of color in your organization are hurting and they're frustrated and they're angry and they're wondering why the company that they are giving their best time and skills to isn't supporting them back. Right. And if that's not your intention, then you have to make that right. And so being able to step up and to say something is like super. It's critical. And it's you don't have to agree with the methods. You don't have to agree with protesting. What you're agreeing with is that life is valuable and that we support people. Living is really what Black Lives Matter is, is about as one of its core tenants. So I don't know if there's anything that you want to add to that. 

Carrie: I kind of went on a little rant there, but that was you know. 

Kyle: It's so true because when you do stop and think about the issue at hand, you're exactly right. Life is valuable. That's what we're talking about here, right? I would say, and even from an individual perspective, right. Because we're all individuals working for companies representing whatever it may be in my area of expertise is more in the individual. And so I would just urge you, as a part of your company, regardless of the response or non-response, continue to make it your mission to communicate with grace your viewpoint greatly, gracefully when you point your ideas in hope and hope that that will influence those around you in the hope that that will influence like Carrie's got the organization that you're dedicating your work to your time and your energy to do so, whatever you can as individuals because we're all operating as individuals. We don't control the organizations. We don't control that. Right. We hope and we pray that they respond in these ways as Carrie said. But as individuals just continue to extend like ridiculous amounts of grace so that people continue to have the space to navigate and respond when and if that goes for your company. Right. There might be companies that are very confused. They're not seeing it as clearly. This is an issue that says this. They're seeing it as a political issue or whatever it is in people's minds. So they might also be really confused as to how. So I would say, again, as an individual ready to come up with a way or a suggestion of how they could communicate so that you're a part of the solution with them and your grace and like a solution in no way or in their direction so that they can more confidently step forward and give the response that's more clear-headed and confident. 

Carrie: Yes. And we often underestimate our own sphere of influence. I've talked to people since all this started that have stepped up and just written emails are gone to talk with leadership and have had statements made after those conversations happened or policies changed after these conversations have happened. So use your own influence, your own experience to bring those, to raise those concerns, to help clear up the confusion and to point a way forward because a lot of times those can go much farther than we expected and actually get the results that we want in getting the companies to take a stand, to send out the email to people reassuring and reconnecting and reuniting people in this time of just such disparate energy and just tension and turmoil. 

Kyle: I want to say, you made me think of something, Carrie. We named our workshop How to Disruptor we kind of subtitle it, How to Disrupt the cycles of racism. Right? So whatever you can do to disrupt the cycle of anger around racism, too, I think is huge. So I just thought of an example when you're talking, is my kids go to a school they hadn't made a statement quick enough to someone's liking and that someone, God bless her, came to me and was like, hey, how do you feel? Like they haven't responded? And I was like, hey, I actually hadn't even thought about them responding or not. But because you did. Thank you, number one. And let's come up together with the way that we can encourage them. 

Kyle: Right? That we can remind them like we're here. And this is a place that we're expecting some kind of response or some kind of like unity building. So I encourage this. And I'm so glad you were convicted. Don't ignore that conviction. Just reach out with so much grace and so many ideas and solutions for them to, again, craft their response. So you just reminded me about examples. 

Carrie: Yes. And I appreciate everything that you said for sure. And being able to reach out with grace sometimes, though, like just being real, like people are mad and people are in their heart, and that's going to come out in how they choose to express themselves. And I just want to say that where you are, that's OK, because this is about doing the perfect thing all the time. It's about being where you are. It's about taking the steps that you can take. And then it's about in the cases where it doesn't go the way you want, doing trying something better is trying something different, trying again next time. And so for people who are angry about it, it's valid. And just how do you channel that anger into something that eventually gets to what you want it to be? So you go through the stages and then see how can we move forward ultimately once we become out of that state and it's back and forth like we're all ever since the pandemic started, we've all been up and down, up and down and over, left and right. And so honoring where we are. But then also keep in mind that vision for what we want. McNicol, that speaks to the grace that you're talking about and being able to push towards that solution. So. 

Kyle: Yeah, humoring do one more thing, too, it's like the rule that we all learn as kids, right? Two wrongs don't make a right. And if you keep having wrongs, it is never going to equal rights. 

Kyle: So as angry as you are, like Carrie said, figure out how to channel that, because meeting anger with more anger is not going to help the disruption. So it's like figuring out how to channel that anger and use it productively to find the ways that we can appropriately disrupt the cycle of anger. 

Kyle: So, yeah, it’s just a reminder in our household, just as in society, continuing to advance is not going to ever equal rights to figure out how to channel your anger towards what is right. 

Carrie: I think that's such a...It's up for interpretation, like, right, like what is the dean protesting all over the world and a lot of the protesting? I honestly cheered for like, if you're going to tear down and throw a slave labor statue into a river in London, I think that's awesome. Why did you come up anyway and what is right and what is wrong? It's just this it's the space that we're all in right now. And so I think that really and you talked about this from the beginning, like you have to decide how you are engaging and where your place is in this and how, again, you can push towards what you want because a lot of people will say all the protesting around the globe, both peaceful through, ripping down, ripping up, tearing down these incredible responses that from companies, from organizations, from leaders, from people, from everyone, that all this combination of everything working together in the wrongness, blackness, whiteness, whatever that is, all of these things together is what is driving this momentum in a way that it hasn't been driven before. And it's a violent process. If there were only there were no protests, like, would all of this come to the head that we're at right now? I'm not sure. But I do know that we all have to define what that right is, what that wrong is, and how we're engaging. And then again, just keeping that vision for what we're trying to push towards. 

Kyle: Yeah, I feel like now we can talk about this forever because you right there is this man who lived two thousand years ago. His name was Jesus. If you know, if you're of the Christian faith. Right? There are stories that are amazing about him, but there are also stories where he got angry. Right? So there's a story where he went into the temple and he ended things that he thought as the way he protested in his own way and kind of was destructive in a certain way. 

Kyle: So I draw on that. And you're exactly right, Carrie. Each one of us as individuals has to navigate anger on our part. And that's what I always I come back to, like, you know, when you're confronted by something, you know, inside yourself. So don't ignore your convictions. I think that's my biggest call out. Navigate your convictions, take the pauses when you need to, but don't go in angrily without having, like, thought about what you'll stop a conviction and not act on it and don't ignore convictions. Use your own moral compass to engage appropriately for who you are and what you believe is right. But again, that's a conversation we can have for so long. What is right and what is right to you is not right. Right? So it's a great idea to remember our question. I think we're talking about the book. How do you define diversity in an organization and what they say? But I hope this is adding some light and shedding some light on those that are watching.