Session 12: Transcript

Session 12: Transcript

Lightning Q&A for Allies – guest Tina Medina

Carrie Sawyer: Hi, this is Carrie here from the Inclusion First project, we are answering all the questions that allies have around anti-racism and today we are here to do one of our lightning Q&A sessions. I have a fantastic guest here. Her name is Tina Medina, and I'm going to let her introduce herself. Go for it, Tina.

Tina Medina: Hi. Thanks, Carrie, for having me on. Hello, everybody. My name is Tina Medina. You can't just call me Tina Medina. They go hand in hand. I am a former educator and have been working in race relations and especially through the context of education for a long time, for over 20 years. And now I support educators and help them become better, stronger leaders, better, stronger impact leaders for the schools, the students, and the communities that they serve. And so obviously, a really big piece of that is helping them uncover the many layers around structural racism that show up within our education system. So that's it in a very, tiny nutshell, tiny nutshell. 

Carrie: Yeah, Tina is doing incredible work. And Tina, can you tell us a little bit about the anti-racism work specifically that you've been doing with educators? And just like that's it's amazing. And I would just love for people to know more about it.

Tina: Yeah, thank you. I mean, I'll say, first of all, that, like, these are really tough conversations to have, especially when you are. And I'm really passionate, like so many things I want to say. First of all, I'm a white educator. So really I can only speak to the context of my experience, which is as a white educator. And so I'm really passionate about connecting with other white educators so that we can have these really deep conversations together and be in a safe context so that we are not offending when we don't mean to. I mean, I think I really believe in humanity, right. That we all want to do good and we all want to have a good impact in the world and we don't want to harm anybody. However, our ignorance can do that and willful ignorance is one thing, but also like dedicating yourself to a path of wanting to uncover the ignorance takes a lot of bravery and courage and a willingness to go into the deep, dark spaces that are really ugly and uncomfortable. 

I like creating spaces for people to do that together. I love hosting anti-racism training specifically for white educators. And I'm also doing these monthly anti-racism panel discussions that are specifically for educators, parents, and youth influencers. And so those happen on the second Saturday of every month. We have them planned all the way out through December. And every month is a different topic. We have one coming up this Saturday. That is our first ever all youth panel. We really want to incorporate the most important stakeholders in these conversations and education are our youth. And so having them be a part of the conversation is critical. And this Saturday is all about what I wish my teachers knew. And so the entire panel is students and youth of color that are ranging from high school students to just about to enter into grad school and everything in between. So these are really open like living room type conversations that have no agenda other than to have people really walk away with very specific, easy action steps that they can turn around and implement into their lives right away.

Carrie: That's amazing. And so that's happening this Saturday.

Tina: This Saturday, the 8th. Yep. From 11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. Pacific Time. And they're always on the second Saturday, always from 11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. just to make it really easy and they're free and they're free.

Carrie: That's amazing. I hope people check that out. That's a huge resource. All right. Well, thank you so much. We're really excited to have you. I can't wait to dive into these questions. We have just two questions that we are going to hit today. This is our quick in and out just to keep you inspired, interested in thinking about anti-racism and how it shows up in so many different ways and so many layers of our lives. And so I'm going to read the first question and then you can take a stab at it or if you want, you can put it back to me. Totally up to you. Ok, so our first question was submitted on our website. And so it is why do white people seemingly prefer not to live by black and brown people? White flight? Are we bad neighbors? Tina, what do you think about that?

Tina: I mean, the first thing that comes to my mind is just identity theory, right? Like we, you know, oil and water, ok? Oil and water don't mix. Right? Like, you have to shake it up. Like you have to intentionally shake up oil and water for it to mix so you can get a really great, tasty salad dressing. Right. And so if you think about structurally the way our systems have been set up in this country, especially housing and housing segregation and all the laws that have been put into place since the beginning of our nation's time, we have never created space for diverse neighborhoods to exist. And so they seem in my mind and like, every time I hear about a neighborhood that's like that, it's like a utopia to me, like I can't even imagine what that looks like. And so I don't I can't personally speak about whether or not white people think people of color are bad neighbors. I can tell you that I've always purposely put myself into neighborhoods that are as diverse as the community around me could create. But I do want to just be really open and honest and vulnerable. 

I had gone to Birmingham, Alabama, a couple of years ago and it was my first time there and my first time in the Deep South. And I was really shocked by how segregated this city was, and not even necessarily by neighborhood, but even by the restaurant, I would walk by a restaurant and everybody outside and inside the place were black and then two restaurants down, it was all white. And I just it really got me thinking about, like, wow, how does this. How does this continually perpetuate itself? And so I'm kind of answering the question with just another question of like it just sort of blows my mind, you know like our structures are so deeply rooted that we can't it's not even that we can't even be neighbors, but we can't even go into the same restaurants together.

Carrie: Yeah, that's really interesting. And it's an I mean, the South is like not to knock on the south at all because each region has its own culture. But definitely, there are places in the country and even within every city that is extremely segregated, regardless of which way you're looking or another. And I just think that I love what you said earlier about how you try to intentionally, like, put yourself into places where there is diversity. And I think that that is really like the key. How do we, like, intentionally put ourselves places and think about those things and be aware of that context as we're thinking about how we want our families to grow up, what kinds of people we want to expose them to, how we want to prepare them to go into this like broad international, brown and white and everything in-between world. Right. So, you know, this idea, are we bad neighbors? And then I think, you know, thinking back to, like, you know, the 60s and the civil rights movement, like people were encouraged, white people were encouraged to sell their homes and move somewhere else. So that's like systemic.

Who were the people that were telling them that? I actually don't know the answer to that question that I just asked. But real estate agents like the structures. We're telling them, hey, you need to move because people that don't look like us are coming. Right. And so, you know, it's kind of like these things are perpetuated and before and, you know, you don't even know, like why things are the way that they are, but they are. And then we start, like, blending families. Different races are mixing and creating. And now, like, the way we think about when we move, where we move is a totally different thing than it was before. Because you want your mixed children to be around people who are going to accept them, who are going to look like them, who are going to represent their mixed heritage too.

And so in that sense, we're like totally shifting that dynamic, those things that were normal. But there are lots of places where we stay, where we are. And that's like, you know, similarity, bias, like likes like, like we like being around the people that look like us, that are like us, and we don't trust strangers. And there are good reasons for that in a lot of ways, especially in black and brown communities. Why you shouldn't trust strangers. So, you know, I don't think that anyone I mean, are their bad neighbors like when you think about people who are like you but then just happen to have a different colored skin? And I actually know the person who sent this question. And this person has a mixed family and they're quite affluent. But this is a brown person who's affluent with a family that is black and white and mixed children and are still asking these questions like it has nothing to do with money. Right. It's around race. And so it's really interesting just to think about that.

Tina: Everything is around race. I mean, everything is around race. No matter where you go, no matter what you look at, I one hundred percent guarantee you that somehow some way it's connected to race in one way or another, you know, and I'll say to like just having this conversation is making me think about my mom's a real estate agent. And so she gets these like multi these really like exclusive home magazines that are these exclusive multi multimillion-dollar homes that are for sale in the San Diego area, which is where we live. And so I'm always fascinated when I look through these magazines and there's always the little headshot of the realtor down at the bottom. And sometimes you'll have like a full-page spread of all the realtors that are within this particular firm. And what color do you think they are?

Carrie: They're all white and all white.

Tina: Yeah, right. And so and no, no judgment. It's an observation. And so if you if you're somebody who's just kind of new to making these sort of observations, like when you look at something, especially in the housing industry and real estate, if you look at these really upper echelon, high-end homes, and neighborhoods and you look at the people who are selling these homes, how are those things connected? Like what just making the observations is, which is I always want to encourage do and no matter what, no matter what you're looking at, just like nonjudgmental, you just make an observation. And what's the messaging around that?

Carrie: Right. Asking yourself why? Like getting curious, asking why, and starting to really dig into that. Absolutely. Yeah. So I feel like we answered that question with a question which is actually totally, totally ok because that's part of this work is when you don't know the answer, like getting curious and digging into it. But I don't have to make up an answer because it's something like why I'm not sure and that's ok. But that's something that we'll keep exploring and keep learning. So. ok, cool. Ready for the next question?

Tina: Sure.

Carrie: This one is a longer read, but it's a really good question. So ok, this one. So ok, my family and I are white and I have a question. My dad grew up with a very rough life, he had an abusive mother suffering from alcohol addiction. He left home when he was 16 and struggled with drugs and alcohol all the way up until his 30s. He's not racist, but he doesn't understand that black people suffer more than whites because of his past experience. So my question is, how can I get my dad to understand that black people suffer more than whites just because of the color of their skin?

Tina: I love this question because I think it's really, really relatable and especially for people of my generation and younger, where we had parents who went through their sets of struggles, especially if you have immigrant parents I do, I'm a first-generation American. And so my family survived multiple wars. And so the way a lot of people in my family are connecting to what's happening around Black Lives Matter is they're looking at it in the context of their own suffering. And that's and that's ok. I think it's a starting point, right? It's a starting point. And so first and foremost, we get to lead with empathy around this. We get to lead with compassion and I think especially for white people. And maybe this is wrong or maybe this is right. But this is how I've taken this approach, even with my own family it is like, ok, this is your entry point on how to connect around this.

Tina: And like, let's take it a little bit further and just recognize that, like you, you have a very different experience. And based on one very particular thing, immigrant or not, you are white. And so you get to understand that the structures in this country have been built from the very beginning. Our education system or our housing systems, our government, a government, our economic system, everything, everything has been built around positioning white privilege. And that is a hard pill to swallow for people who have suffered a lot in their lives, especially if they're trying to establish themselves in this country as an immigrant or first generation. So what I like to do is go back to the facts, you know, and focus less on how I can get my dad to understand and focus first on your own learning.

I think a lot of times like we don't know how to have conversations around things because we aren't really clear on the facts ourselves. So what are your gaps? Where are your, I don't want to call them weaknesses, but like, where are your knowledge gaps now that you can do some learning around or unlearn? We have a collective miseducation that we get to do some unlearning and learning around. And so where are your own gaps and how can you bring this knowledge into the conversations? And not from it's really important that you're not coming from a place of self-righteousness or righteousness at all or judgment. But it's like, hey, well did you know that this is our education system was actually founded on a way of oppressing people of color. And like you, here are the facts around it. Right? Like whatever your gaps are, like, put the effort into filling those gaps for yourself so that you have the knowledge and the history around it. And they have some great recommendations on books that you can start with for sure. But I would first and foremost like to focus on your own learning and unlearning.

Carrie: Ok, I will drop that book recommendation, those books into the comments for sure, because I definitely want to check those out as well. But yeah, Tina I think I love the idea of focusing on your own journey. And I also love the idea, like kind of separating these two things. Like, a lot of times I'm beginning questions around like who's suffering is worse. Right. And it's not it's definitely absolutely not a competition, but it's also not really relevant in my mind to the conversation because when I see you suffering, I don't say, oh, that's ok because I suffer too right like it's not OK that you're suffering and it's not OK that I'm suffering. And regardless of who is suffering, it's our opportunity to sit in places of privilege to help, to make that better, to help, to stop that, to mitigate that, to create systems that support people instead of oppressing them. 

And so I think that, in my mind, that's how I always just kind of dissect these differences, because you're never going to get you're never going to win a battle like, oh, I suffered more than you like. That's just not it's not really a fruitful conversation. And so how do we actually start to think about it. Well, guess what? That wasn't OK. And guess what? This isn't OK either. But then also, I love the part that you talked about understanding the history because this is like a cause and effect over hundreds of years. Right. And so when you think about it in that way, like, OK, well, it's almost like math. Like when the system was designed against you, you weren't even counted as a person. And now all these years later, all of these problems are still circulating and being perpetuated. But it's because of the foundation that it was built on. And right now, we have the opportunity to really lay a foundation of different understanding, of more learning, of more empathy, of more support across our differences versus like, oh, our differences are like this, and we have to decide who had it worse. Right.

So so, yeah, I totally agree with what you said. And I think that you know, understanding also where this person's dad is coming from and also putting yourself in a place of listening. So you've got your facts. But then you're also like listening to him to understand, you know, OK, Dad, tell me a little bit more about that. Why did you think that? What are the things that happened to you? So you have that opportunity to connect what he is willing to share and then also learn about his perspective so that as you bring in your experience, your facts, and your opinions on this, that you can actually use the information that you're learning from him to help with your argument. And like at the end of the day, we talked about this actually. We talked about this same question last night because I think that it's so rich in our weekly Q & A session. But at the end of the day, it really isn't about trying to convince someone like who's right and who's wrong, because when you get into that like that opposition, like it doesn't go anywhere. But how can you, like, understand each other a little bit better? And maybe this conversation, you know, there's no winner, right? There's no winner. But maybe you understood each other a little bit more. And so there is actually a winner. And then the next time, if you can bring some different information, maybe you can get to some more layers of his experience and really start to dig in there and unpack and connect in a way where you can speak to each other and see each other's point of view respectfully. Right.

Tina: So I think it's too and I'll just add this to it, it's like we're dealing with different generations, right? Like if I'm talking to my parents or my parents' generation or you're talking to your parents, your parent's generation, it's easy for us to forget sometimes, too, that they grew up in a different era, which means certain words were acceptable. It was OK to call somebody a Negro. It was OK to refer that to them as a certain thing like that was culturally accepted at the time. Not that it was right. I'm not saying it was right, but it was culturally accepted. Things that were culturally accepted than are not culturally accepted now. And we forget that like they grew up in a totally different era, again, not excusing it, but when we sit and have conversations with our parents or older generations, it allows us to to get a better understanding of where they're coming from and maybe why it's just so much harder for them to understand or to connect around why this is such a big deal. Why are people rioting like I just don't get it? Well, let's just talk for a minute and travel back in time with them. Right. Because of the things that happened to us when we were young in our younger years, our formative years. Right. They have lasting impacts on us and they can create a lot of trauma that sometimes is unresolved. Most of the time is unresolved trauma. So if we never get down into our own personal histories around it, too, that's such a rich opportunity for us to go into like a connective space with people that we love, that we really want to understand.

Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, at the end of the day, all of this work is about connection, about connecting and about reconnecting across our differences, whether that is race, whether that is the generation, whether that is the viewpoints and. I think that the others are absolutely, really great strategies to help to do that and give us this opportunity to help people to maybe think in a different way. Right. We're just trying to, like, open that door to start that process of thinking in a different way, considering it in a different way. And you really never know where anyone is in that process of having that epiphany. And so I just say, like, you know, keep going, keep trying, keep having those conversations, take a break when you need to. But it's making a difference, even if not with that person, it could be making a difference with someone who's sitting next to that person and you didn't know that they were paying attention. Right. We don't know where our words are going, we don't know the impact that they have. So if you feel called to have these conversations, just keep having them because it's likely that they're having a bigger impact than you can see at this moment.

Tina: And if at the very least, we're just encouraging people to think, yeah, that's huge, especially if it's not over, something they've ever thought about before. Yes, yes. I mean, we can't underestimate how powerful that is in the long term.

Carrie: Yes. Awesome. All right, Tina, any last thoughts or any last words on these questions, these great questions that we had today for our lightning session?

Tina: I mean, I could go on forever so I'll stop, every time you and I get together, we end up talking for a really long time. And thank you for the opportunity. It's been amazing. And, you know, I just I get really passionate about this conversation and making sure that the conversation keeps going because that's something that we really haven't had much of an experience with yet, that it's still on the forefront even months after George Floyd was murdered, that we're still seeing these conversations popping up. And it's really important that we just keep coming back to it even when it's uncomfortable. So thank you for being a catalyst for that. And thank you for bringing me on. And I love you.

Carrie: I love you, too, Tina. So tell everyone where they can find you if they want to find out more about the sessions that you're hosting, about you, and the work that you're doing at Vibe Movement. Where can they find you?

Tina: Yeah. So if you go to my website is just vibemovement.com, super easy. And then from there, you can find all my social channels. And on Instagram its  _thevibemovement_ and that's where we're on Facebook too. My Facebook page is Vibe with Vibe. And so that's where you can find the information to register for the panels that happen every Saturday. And we would love, love, love, love for all of you to be a part of it. So thanks for the opportunity to share that Carrie. Awesome.

Carrie: This is perfect timing. So thank you, everyone, so much for joining our Lightning Session for the Inclusion First project. If you would like to learn more, please go to our website, www.Inclusion1stProject.org. You can also follow us on all the social media. This month we are launching a new campaign to collect five hundred questions in thirty days. So we're trying to get 500 questions before the end of the month. So please go to our site, submit a question home, work anywhere in between families. We're taking questions on everything, anything. Ask in a spirit of learning and doing more. So thank you so much. And we will see you next time.